Posted by Sunray on December 16, 1999 at 19:52:26:
In Reply to: Re: re: posted by John on December 16, 1999 at 17:36:48:
: : : : : : http://astro.temple.edu/~arcc/hick.html
: : : : : : "The Latest Vatican Statement on Christianity and Other Religions" by John Hick. Please read and give feedback, good or bad.
: : : : : Some feedback in bulleted form:
: : : : : - nothing new here really, This is just another of the essays from the non-literal, "liberal" interpretation of Christianity. There is much talk and writing in scholarly circles of this kind.
: : : : : - secondly while the Vatican , at least to my knowledge, is really trying to offer ADVICE in good faith for their parishoners in dealing with contemporary issues, what actually happens is most people read this as dogma to be accepted by good catholics, or as reason again to deny God and christianity in general as telling people what to think.
: : : : : - thirdly instead of waiting to the end of several thoughtful comments, why doesn't someone just go ahead and make a joke about farts or other crude matter now and save us all the time.
: : : : yikes! i hope there was a smiley-face intended after that! :-)
: : : : (oh.... i forgot.... christians aren't supposed to have fun.... *giggle*)
: : : : (is frivolousness close enuff to crude matter to satisfy you?) :-)
: : : Ephesians 5:3-4
: : : But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual impurity, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or course joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
: : : me- Guilty, convicted, trying to change. No smiley face intended.
: : yea, verily, and i say again, "yikes!"
: Think what you will. No one ever says anything about these sort of issues and people silently dissappear over them. We are Christians and as liberal as we like to think we are, there should be standards. I have said nothing that is not true and reasonable to anyone who claims to follow Christ. Nothing wrong with jokes, but they should be tempered and appropriate to the situation, not every thread needs to be turned into a joke.
: Nothing further.
Read Matthew 7:1-5. I do not claim to be a theologian or have extensive knowledge of the Bible, yet I take issue with your implication that if I do not find your statements "true and reasonable," then I must not be a follower of Christ.
I would like to point out some things about the earlier joking that you referred to. If you will go back and re-read the posts from the time you referred to, you will note the following:
1) There was no INTENT to trivialize the discussion that was underway... I know that there was no such intent on my part; I was merely expressing my appreciation for the openness of the forum... I also know that this was not the intent of the others since they were the same people who were having the serious discussion and making caring comments.
2) Even though one message part of the message thread dissolved into silliness (and yes, perhaps crudeness too), the serious discussion did continue in other threads, and the discussion was not killed as a result.
3) At the time, Dave was new to the board, and I think he didn't know how long the board sometimes sits without anyone adding anything... so when he made a controversial post which, if I remember correctly, began with a statement that the Bible cannot be infallible, he thought that he had shocked everyone into silence, and I believe that he was merely asking for some response and reassurance that he didn't kill the board.
Unless I have missed something somewhere, the point of all of the discussions here is not to point fingers and say who is right and who is wrong, but to explore different avenues and beliefs and (dare I say it?) perhaps to find new insight. There are certainly at least as many people who silently disappear from groups where rigid unacceptance rules. I was raised in a religious environment wherein the group's views were forced down my throat. There was no joy whatsoever in their relationship with God, and their love was conditional upon whether I complied and withheld if I dared to question their belief system. No wonder I wanted nothing whatsoever to do with their religion or "their" God for years after I finally got away. What a blessing I think it is to have a place where people can express differing views and not be ostracized! What a celebration to be with people who take joy in their spirituality and are able to joke and have fun without fear of God striking them dead!