Re: theological question

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: : The stupidity of the Jews of the OT (in my opinion) : : cannot be fairly set upon seekers of today. : I disagree. First, it wasn't stupidity; it was unbelief. : Second, it can be fairly placed upon all mankind, as the Word makes clear. : :Whereas : : the OT jews constantly showed themselves a people content : : to waver, never seeking truth for themselves, always : : wanting to delegate "another" to do their leadership, : : then complain in self pity when everything didn't go : : their way. : You've made my case so eloquently, what more can I say? This is clearly US. : : I, on the other hand, believe that in times where : : talk is deemed to be cheap, that if one is really seeking : : the truth that they will find it. Indeed, I am a : : believer, but don't you agree, that things would be : : much easier to go on believing sometimes, if there : : were an audible voice speaking to you, on occasion (so : : as not to spoil the whole "awe" of the thing), : : to console, comfort, and guide... that you would be : : all the stronger for it..? I do. : Possibly. Depends what you mean by "believing". What many Christians believe in and how they believe is a far cry from the faith God works in wilderness, in suffering, in poverty of spirit. I'm not sure I would want them to "go on believing" as they do. It is often better to crush the life out of the fake to realize the presence of the real. : Nevertheless, I have had a number of miraculous communications and visions in my life. These things have certainly revolutized my life in many ways, but also tended to make me more sensory-focused in my relationship with God. I need a good spiritual "silence" to break free of that detriment; to really assimilate the true value in the revelation. I didn't say I WANTED or LIKED the silence; only that I have learned that I need it. : All the above being understood (so you will know that I do not speak as one who criticizes what he knows not) I am grateful for the strong assurance that carries me through the really dry times. That assurance couldn't have been instilled in me through the sensory alone, and more importantly, that assurance couldn't have been tested and proven in me through the sensory at all. : This is my life I speak of. It is not theoretical or academic; it is real to me. And, as you must know, the man with an experience is not moved by the man with an argument. : : To say that the Jews of old, who had always heard, : : but never sought, would not do any better without : : God's audible voice & miracles being shown is a given. : : But to say that ones who have never heard or seen : : DIRECTLY (audible voice, or fire from heaven, etc.) : : would not be helped, is not a fair assumption. : I again disagree, not categorically; it would be the categorical tone of your answer that I disagree with. Although there may be situations where your observation would be true, it is not always true, and I suspect it is very rarely true, if only because God does not more often choose that method. If indeed the "ones" (you defined above) would be "helped" (in the best and most enduring way), and God chose not to help them, then that would suggest unrighteousness with God. I can not question God's goodness, nor His fervent desire that all should come to Him. I will gladly question and contradict the church, popular theology, etc., but never God's intentions nor His wisdom in how He reaches out. His way is perfect, and His wisdom is unsearchable. There is no better way that the one He has chosen. : This is the solid assurance of my faith, which has come through the hardest of times. These are the times where I truly learn that God is good, because His goodness stands in stark contrast to the chaos around me. : It is easy to love the visions, but it is also easy to fall in the confidence of the afterglow. It is not easy to learn to love the sensory deprivation, but it necessary. I no longer despise it. It has made me strong.

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