Posted by Pastor Steven on November 11, 2001 at 14:04:22:
In Reply to: Re: verses- help me find one or more posted by Cindi on November 09, 2001 at 13:18:16:
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: Okay thats VERY helpful. But if you will allow me to play the devils advocate for a moment. In all the verses you provided for me every mention of sexuality was worded "sexual immorality"...now to give more beef to the argument...where does it define "sexual imoratity" as opposed to "sexuality". reason? a couple is dedicated, devoted, livinig a good and moral life. but they have nver been 'married' in the eyes of the church [ie: no wedding ceremony performed by a cleric] or the state [no licence filed]...perhaps in their own eyes they've taken one another to 'to have and to hold, from this day forward....until death do us part' .... what then makes them "sexually immoral"?
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Three observations:
1. I hear this kind of response so often from so many people. Most of them do NOT stay together. However beautifully one may articulate the depth of their commitment, often the declaration of such lofty idealistic principles only serves to cover some serious issues regarding commitment which they don't want to face. "In their own eyes" (as you put it) they will see it however they choose, so to justify their decision. The fact remains that they have chosen neither to make it legal nor take any public vows in front of witnesses. If they are so dedicated and they both know it's really for life, what's the problem with getting the license and having some public exchange of vows? I would say there must be a reason.
2. Marriage is hard work and it takes much commitment for a lifelong relationship to survive. I would never want to give my heart and my life to another in a relationship that will require so much labor (and which has the potential to break my heart and destroy me) if the other person isn't sure enough of wanting to stay with me to SAY SO publicly in front of witnesses and before God. No sir, no thank you. Is that what you would want? How would it feel to know the person to whom you've given your life just does not want to marry you?
3. Do you REALLY think that when Jesus and all the other apostles talked about "marriage," they were referring to both legal marriage AND also unmarried couples who seemed committed? You might want to believe that, but you know that's not true. The historical record makes it very clear that was not what they believed and not what the church condoned. The people who wrote the verses you asked to know might object to your complete reinterpretation of their meaning. You will either agree with what they MEANT or disagree with what they MEANT, but manipulating their words and ideas does not change what they were saying. You know, it almost seems like you wanted to know all the verses so you could see what you needed to reinterpret to justify this relationship. At least that's the way it almost seems...
Please pardon me if being so honest is unfashionable or rude. I simply want to respect you enough to give it to you straight.