Posted by giveawayboy on December 15, 2001 at 18:48:38:
In Reply to: with all respect to the mystery poster posted by giveawayboy on December 15, 2001 at 17:49:11:
What about people like that. What would Lucy say to them? What would Lucy say to the Christian alcoholic who still struggles? What would she say to the homosexual Christian? What would she say to the Christian girl who just aborted her baby? The problem with Lucy is that her faith is cookie cutter and her response to people is VERY cookie cutter. And I don't buy it. To be substantial as a witness, Lucy needs to enter into the realtime experience of those around her. This means that she would see the atheist, the agnostic, the homosexual, the immoral, the outcast, as through God's eyes. She would behold in them the image of Christ, and she would become humble before that. She could still believe atheism is foolish wout needing to proclaim the atheist a fool. She could believe in right and wrong without making herself their arbiter.
Bill
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my thoughts clarified themselves in the shower.
I figured out better what I meant. I thought of this before Steve's response, so for his benefit, this is not meant as a followup to what he wrote. I think what I don't like about Lucy's statment and cookie cutter Christian responses is it seems that they are ways of cataloguing and filing people away rather than to surrender to some form of involvement w them. It's easier to address the sin and not the person. It's easier to make broad sweeping statments like ABORTION IS MURDER! or GOD MADE ADAM AND EVE , NOT ADAM AND STEVE! but it is much harder to be patient, and longsuffering and watch Christian friend after Christian friend, NOT leading perfect lives, and NOT glorifying God 100% of the time, and falling, and making messes, and simply struggling through life. It's easier to deliever some real sappy spiritual sounding tripe to them, but to me, when Christ becomes authentic, is when my brother or sister allows themselves to be touched by my infirmities, or when my brother or sister sticks with me, even when i stink like hell, and seem to be camping on it's doorstep. What I have seen time and again, is that those brothers who CLAIM to be so committed and spiritual seem to descend rather quickley into cookie cutterisms as soon as I really start fudging up. That is when I really NEED them. When I'm close to sin is when I really need the wise, patient soul, the one who WON'T give up. Instead of trying to define and ignore me they simply STAY involved and are not scared to be identified w my stumbling walk. That's where I'm at. I need to see Christ incarnated in a real authentic way. Then I will know where to find him. It's sort of God's plan that we discover him in the body. This means that Christ, who is flawless, has come to be God with us, God who touches us and involves himself w us in intimate ways. God, who doesn't mind identifying with our humanity, knowing he will be painfully touched by our sin. He loves us although he despises our sin. all I'm saying is that he doesn't just stand on some hill making broad pronouncements about our foolishness or lack of insight, or whatever. He calls us into communion with him and w each other and he stays w us until we strap him up on a piece of bark and rip his naked flesh, and then he stays w us by sending the Holy Spirit and appointing pastors for us. He stays w us in our very hearts. He stays w us in his Word. He absolutely refuses to leave us, his dear children, who over and over forget to follow him. So, to me, that is authentic. Christ would have dealt with someone long enough to know who they are. He would see the roots of the atheism and try to bring healing to that part of the person. He would address the atheism indirectly, by addressing the person directly. He would be passionately interested in that person. I say this w fear and trembling as I can see ways I have kicked back and judged others. I even fear that I might be judging someone by my very act of posting this, but I hope God puts the proper heart in me. In the meantime, I restate that I offer no condemnation toward the mystery poster. I I am actually thankful since this has been a great wakeup call for me.
Bill