Posted by kat on April 22, 2002 at 18:45:46:
In Reply to: Re: see post below on unnamed bird posted by john on April 20, 2002 at 18:33:34:
: : Then humans are not natural factors anywhere? If so that doesn't make sense. Aren't we classified as animals, and if so then we are part of the ecosystem, natural or otherwise, for better or worse, right? And cats, well even if they are domestic, if they are out there hunting and killing, are part of the system.
: yes we are animals biologically, but in the western framework of ecolgical science human actions and structures are not considered natural. Now in the asian context everything that happens in this universe is natural, because natural is defined as just that...natural, whereas here we distnguish between nature and us. See the difference? Of course in the other context, even pollution is considered natural because it is a product of natural beings (us). But we have to understand that they don't see the same dichotomy between nature that we do. This means that environmental concerns are more a matter of stewardship and balance to them, rather than a good/evil battle like everything in the western context. There are many environmentalists who think this way inthe west, but they are the more radical groups and not the people doing the real day-to-day work of prottecting/ maintaining/ restoring the environment. (but we're starting to infiltrate ;)
Yes I see, I don't think i ever heard this before!
As far as the whole ecosystem example, your explanation was fantastic! Creation is so complex and delicatly balanced most of us can't even grasp how important every living thing and every habitat is not just for their survival but our own. But the incredible way it safeguards itself also which moves right into the biodiversity thing. How one species can pick up the slack if another is wiped out. I would never say "so what" though!
: : Here's another question for ya. I realize that humans destroy the natural habitat of some creatures, but in some cases isn't extinction just a 'natural' part of the whole circle of life?
: : (I put natural in quotes because I think the natural world is not as God intended it to be)
: Now as for this question, extinction can be a natural cycle. But in nature, according to fossil records species go extinct something like less than a dozen per millenium, except in the case of mass extinctions, like what killed the dinosaurs. Well we are currently losing over 12 species A YEAR! due to human related factors, mainly habitat loss. Humans are now responsible for the newest mass extinction event, and it isn't over yet. If you want to call this unnatural, then it needs to be stopped, and if you want to call it natural, then that's fine, but it will likely end in the MASSIVE destruction of the stressing factor... that being us. Do you want to see billions of souls die because we refused to work within the system that God gave us? now you alluded to the fact that this is not the nature God intended and you are right. Everything is spinning toward entropy, meaning it decays and falls apart. If you want to call this the curse of human sin, I wouldn't argue. But should we allow it to accelerate? Are we really so certain of God's plan that we would neglect our responsiblities to tend the garden, even in it's fallen state? Is this good stewardship? Just rhetorical questions, but these are the issues of environmental philosophy.
: And one last question to think about. Assuming the system does crash, will you survive? Do you want to live in the chaos that follows? And even if you do live, can you bear the knowledge that this is the highest resource consuming nation in the world? That means Americans are indirectly sending lesser developed nations with far more people and countless species that God gave life to their end by consuming the limited resources available. Treading lightly is far more than a concept to protect pretty flowers.
Agreed!
Well, we are huge gaping maw consumers without a thought about the destruction and pillage that occurs when conglomerates rape the landscape! Most people don't recycle (including me) and that's the least we could do. Do you think that anybody really considers that we could destroy ourselves in this way! Agreed!