Posted by john on August 12, 2002 at 07:30:27:
In Reply to: Re: Bob's Answers -- worth much posted by Pastor Steven on August 09, 2002 at 15:17:35:
: : Great advice from a decidedly philosophical point of view....
: : ...But the comment on living as if you would die tomorrow can't be lived practically because the fact is most of us won't die tomorrow, and then what. We can't realistically throw our responsibilities out the window with complete abandon because you can't go backward. I mean I get your point, but if I was going to die tomorrow I sure as anything wouldn't go to work, and I'd leave my car right wherever it was and go do something real. But then the next day I would be forced to revert to my life and patch up the damage or make another conscious decision to throw away the trappings. You see it's a downward spiral and you can't live like that for long.
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: I have lived it for years. I am ready and willing to die, and yet still I live and work hard. I have lost fear of death, and yet I still cherish life and recognize every breath as a gift from God. This realization has not produced the effects in my life you claim it produces.
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: : I'm not disagreeing, only saying it can't be practiced. The statements, like many philosophical ideas must get dilluted with reality until they can be implemented, and this is often less than satisfactory for the practitioner... at least it is for me. That's why I continually search for the answers that work in expereince. They are out there, but we must never discount experiential knowledge. Ideals are like paintings, they are nice to contemplate, but they do little in the real world.
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: You are the one speaking "philosophically" here; that is, your argument is more "a priori" than Dave's or mine. My "a posteriori" experience of this philosophy in my life over more than a decade is validated by the empirical evidence in my life, and is observable by others beside myself.
: More than this, this reality has been experienced by many others--people who really were the kind of rebels you claim to be. You rebel against the fashion of this world in a sense, in word and philosophy, but you completely discount the greatest and most beautiful freedom from this delusion which God desires to impart. You are an argument unto yourself.
Well i couldn't agree more that I am an argument unto myself, and a complete contradiction in my own mind, perhaps my greatest struggle and source of many of my own peculiarities and shortcomings. I would absolutley LOVE to unify my thoughts and actions and cease living dually, however I am unable to do it as much as I want to. and despite all the encouragement and pounding of others, this is one of those things that must be changed internally. Of course I feel confident that God can change it in me if I could let it go, but I can't do that either yet. I pray that in time I can be brought to the point of release.
And then I am confused about one thing, what specifically did you mean by "the greatest...freedom from this dillusion..."
And finally, I understand what you mean that you have lived that way for years, but I think we are looking at two different perspectives. So for clarification, from my perspective if I was literally going to die tomorrow I would absolutely abandon (both internally and physically) all of the needless frustration placed on me by this world and cease to prepare for any occurance in the future. I would spend the time settling my loved ones and preparing my heart for eternity. While I can't speak to your internal state, I do know that on some levels you are forced to succumb to the world, you do have to make enough money to eat and pay your bills, you do have to maintain some semblance of credit in order to posess your house and electricity account. You do have to consider insurance for future medical expenses, etc. While it is possible to trust God for these things, few of us completely abandon all preparation for the future and expect God to miraculously make it all go away. To do so would create the downward spiral I spoke of. In fact you yourself told me in past conversations that you knew people who did leave everything and strike out on the road homeless, only to eventually return and try to pick up a life again, after not finding what they sought and realizing that it was a more spiritual type of abandonment than physical. I don't know if you remember, but you did say this.