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: : Not lawlessness. I think the problem is that we se things from two totally different angles. I'm not saying anarchy, i'm saying that the current system is full of corruption and promotes abuses of the powerless and those least able to care for themselves. It is a fundamental flaw with the profit motive, and our system is basically this, it is all based on competing self-interests. i think this is wrong and not at all Godly. Sure there are Christians in the government and people who don't see things my way. I'm not saying all of the participants are evil, just that there are better ways. When you've had as much exposure to the blatant abuses of our government as I have, you begin to see that they are no better than any other government in the world, and worse because they try to pretend like they don't do those things. : : *I realize there have been and are abuses of power, but how can not voting stop it? : : The US is guilty of just as many cover-ups, covert killings, stripping of rights, human rights violations, imperialism, war crimes, and environmental degredation as any other nation. I can name two instances right now where a two men are currently in prison on trumped up charges and being held without possiblity of appeal, even though that is within their legal and constitutional rights. They offended the government and are now paying for it. did you know that the US operated a training center for military dictators? : *I have hear this but I don't really know the details. : They trained Noriega and countless others because they wanted to have control of those countries. If we trained them then we can stay one step ahead... and keep our squeky image. We are the saviors of the little guy from this bad dictator who is using the very techniques the US MILITARY TAUGHT him. I have freinds who have been there as part of a massive protest against the center. They were forced to leave. Did you know that the US is guilty of a holocost that rivals the Nazis? In fact Hitler patterned his concentration camps after American models! But they don't teach that in public school now do they! : * Now this I have never heard, where is the proof of this? : This is the perspective I'm coming from. I'm not advocating lawlessness, but when faced with a system that only allows you to participate within boundaries that are predefined and safe to the current regime, the only political option is to not participate. Eventually the new system will develop and uproot the old. It can be entirely peaceful. : * Who's new system will this be? How will it come about? I agree that there could be a better way to do things, if you know how this can happen I would like to hear details. : : : Yes I know about the other choices, most of them I don't agree with either. There may be a candidate somewhere that I might accept, but under the current system any vote for them would be like not voting anyway. Plus this ignores the real root: I refuse to align myself with any political power. : : *Aslong as there is a freedom based government there will be politics. Groups of people will always come together and try to influence others with their agenda. You simply won't be able to avoid it. : : : I don't think it's a conspiracy, just the natural result of a greed based system. Your right about Christ coming, that is why I take this stance. : : I'm not dropping out. I'm striving to build a better society right on top of the current one. And i'm not stocking weapons or anything. I don't need them. : : Ok, I guess I have no idea of what you are talking about. : : : : What about submitting to authority, isn't that Godly. If the laws are not godly I can understand, but can you then say you were responsible to yourself and your family if you didn't participate in the government you lived under? : : : I am submitting. I'm a law abiding citizen with a right not to vote. I choose this option. Civil disobedience is also a right, and a responsibility of any free man, according to Thoreau. : : : What will you tell your son when the Dictatorship of America comes knocking on your door to take away your gun? : : : I'll say give him the gun, and pray for him. We are to live at peace with all men, and God will provide for our safety. : : : I think God uses governments and presidents and representatives.I think prayer can bring about change and can turn an election. I think that even though the governments are corrupt there are still good even godly people working in them : : Without a doubt. : : and we should too. : : Why should we? : : This is the system we live in. There are people with no voice that need us to be involved. They might not have any choice but to live under this system of government. : I have to try and vote for candidates who think that abortion is murder, because that's what I believe and right now the special interest groups are loud and in the face of representatives who are not sure what is right. Their constiuents need to tell them and vote them out if they have to. I think we CAN still do that. : : I work for the government remember? : : Right. : : : : Ugggh, your wearin me out man! : : Awww, really? This energizes me, every new response is another set of challenges to respond to. It actually makes me look forward to doing something amidst the daily humdrum grind. : : OK, I will try not to get wore out, but only because I like you! : )

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