Posted by giveawayboy on May 26, 2002 at 12:18:46:
In Reply to: Re: the whole gay thing... posted by john on May 26, 2002 at 11:31:05:
John, Thanks for everything you said below. You let me 'come in from the rain'....Thanks for a breath of fresh air, and for being a good friend through all my confusion concerning this aspect of my life. You more than anyone got me in touch w myself and also got me to take myself much less seriously. Some of the talks we had really screwed my brain into practical thinking mode. Thanks for being down to earth! Bill
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I have thought about this issue, and many other hard issues like this alot, and one thing keeps coming back to put me at ease. This is the realization that i don't have to figure it out. I was raised in a fairly conservative Christian environment with definitive rights and wrongs. I was taught just like your unsilentHam friend that the Bible held all the answers if we just learned how to read it right. The problem is that it can be "read right" by different people and come up with entirely rational different conclusions. Your friend, like many people in my family and my original church, has a good heart, but can't see that his viewpoint could possibly be wrong. It would likely shake his faith beyond repair (or rather he is subconsciously scared it would) His world wouldn't make sense if the authority and rules weren't absolute. now I'm not slamming him, because I've learned that sometmes we need our crutches. But I'd also be the first person to kick the crutch out from under him and force him to walk on his own. Anyway this prefaces my viewpoint.
I think that all things are good and pure in their original form. I think every desire is ultimately from God and that means it can't be wrong in itself. But I also think that this world is highly polluted and perverted, so what is good in it's pure form is not in its perverted manifestation. So where does homosexuality fall in here? I don't know. I feel certain that if the the desire to be close to the same sex is truly inate, then it has a form that is pure and holy. This is not to say that having sex is included in this holy aspect. it may be that certain people are not meant to experience that. We too often give sex a god-like status in our society. however, it is insane to think that these same people are destined to live forever without experiencing the closeness between two people that they desire like any of us. What I'm saying is that I think it is possible for two people of the same sex to have an intimate closeness and still be right with God, however this may not include sex. Then there is the other possibility, and many would disagree, but I think many homosexuals feel attracted to the same sex as a result of psychological issues rather than pure born-in desire. The two would be almost indistinguishable from the outside, but if this is the case it may be that these gays are simply in need of help to rehabilitate their understanding of sex and personal relationships. Our society so strictly enforces the "sex is god" paradigm that many who fall outside the typical patterns end up confused and psychologically distressed. So then turning to the gay culture and lifestyle provides a way out and a safe place. I think this is the case with the recent explosion of gay teens.
And then there are countless other possiblities, just as Bill said, you can't stereotype, each person is different. So in light of this, and returning to my original point, I don't care if someone is gay or straight, or trying to be celibate or whatever. I think we all sin all the time and none of us have God all figured out. But we all beleive that if we have a relationship with Jesus, we are restored to him by his blood. So if someone accepts Jesus legitimately in his heart and loves him truly, but lives his whole life struggling with homosexuality, or thinking he is okay to have a monogomous gay relationship. Is he any less worthy of being forgiven than the person who spends his whole life judging and condemning homosexuals because he feels he is justified by the Bible? Both are clear sins according to the text of the Bible, so obviously it can't be works that gets us to heaven! DING! whoa, revelation, so you mean it is grace that saves us, that is-unmerited favor, that is the sole property of the giver to give or take away as he sees fit? What a concept!
Forgive the sarcasm, your friend annoys me too.
Good God, none of us are perfect, and I certainly don't trust my judgement enough to make the kind of descision that tells someone they are going to hell or not. My job is to love people where they are regardless of how much they sin, regardless of if they repent, regardless of if they ever figure it all out. All other descisions are God's and God's alone. Which is as it should be. I certainly feel freer knowing that the salvation of the world is not in my hands, it's already been done.
Point of note: what annoys me most about Mr Ham is not his viewpoint, but his arrogance.