Posted by Bob - the Alien on June 01, 2002 at 17:22:05:
In Reply to: Re: the Campolos on homosexuality posted by Pastor Disaster on June 01, 2002 at 16:39:25:
: I think you misunderstand. First off, Tony is talking about the rules of proper hermeneutics and biblical exegesis, which are paramount to correct biblical application. There are MANY issues involved in this, which I learned over years of study, and consequently will not try to condense in a paragraph here. Suffice to say that Tony does not pick and choose based on his own whims or on the basis of what other "leaders" think for him. (Nor do I.) He is famous for resisting all efforts to coerce him into the currently "acceptable" view on anything.
: The next issue is the effect of the New Covenant in Christ on the Old Testament Hebrew law, which is a doctrine taught throughout the New Testament, and is not just something Tony made up to justify ignoring Old Testament scriptures or to apply them only as he sees fit. Methinks perhaps you have a predisposition to try and find fault in some areas?
: I will not go further on this issue, because there is not a sufficient foundation I can build on here. I only ask that you please don't be insulting of our faith or try to devalue what we believe. I have not debated with you on anything to date, and was not planning to. It seems that a bit of clarification might be in order, though...
: I do not agree with your idea of salvation ("we will still be forgiven if we acted in an honest attempt to live an ethical life") because it does not agree with what Jesus said in any fashion, and I don't think Jesus is a liar or a lunatic. I personally have chosen to trust him with my destiny, because I believe every word he said. My hope of salvation is based on his sacrifice and on his righteousness applied to me, which alone makes me worthy to come before God. He has revealed himself to me in power, shown me his love, and changed the course of my life. This I cannot deny. I love him.
: I agree with unconditional love, forgiveness, grace, acceptance, and every other ideal we have talked about. But the origin of my views on these issues is my understanding of who Jesus is, who I am in Him, the work He has done, and the work I should do to honor him.
: I offer this info not as a challenge, but in an effort to perhaps clarify the foundation of what we believe. We can love those who don't agree with us, and we do. But you probably won't find much support here if you should go on to try and invalidate the teaching of Jesus or his apostles.
Thanks for responding... Yes, I agree that I probably do misunderstand. This is why I ask -- when I see something that does not make sense to me, what can I do but ask? (This is not a rhetorical question, tell me if you have a preferred communication method.)
You say that you have based your beliefs on years of study, and I therefore agree that that cannot be condensed into a paragraph. But can you perhaps point me to some of the readings that you studied? It doesnt have to be condensed into a paragraph if I also take the time to study.
I ask these questions in an honest attempt to understand, hence my request for people to tell me their views. Your response seems to have a tone as if you took it as an attack. For this, I apologize for the confusion. I am not out to invalidate your beliefs, just to try to reach an understanding between us, and ask for clarification when I don't understand.
And I will ask you, and everyone here, a direct question -- given that I do not share your religion, would you rather I stay out of these threads? I will respect that if that is your preference, as I know that written communication can be misunderstood much easier than face-to-face dialogue. So let me know whether or not you find my perspective to be something that you want in these discussions or not, as I am not out to offend.