Posted by jonvon on November 10, 2002 at 08:20:36:
In Reply to: Something else, interesting and full of life..... posted by kat on November 09, 2002 at 10:05:08:
: I wanna go back to talking about the bible being poetry or not being poetry, I almost missed that thread with Terry and the Animal Spirits. I think it's cool what you said, but what you said about the bible being for the masses and all; well it bothered me. I'm just being frank about my feelings now.
i can see why it did. i was venting and i'm sure i came off in a way that could really put some people off. but as you say i was being frank about my feelings. i guess there is a danger in that on a public forum where you don't have a chance to build up some context.
: maybe I didn't quite understand what you were trying to say. Lately I've been trying to memorize some scripture and it's all good. What I was wondering was if you've ever had a scripture illuminated for you. I mean divinely illuminated.
: It's a scripture you've read before, you think you got the meaning and all understood, and then *pow* God says, "did you notice this? ---> (?) "
: And you say, " no, what is that? oh my, wow, that really means, um,---cool!"
: literally, the light goes on
yes, this has happened to me many times. reading the NIV in fact, which i can hardly stand to read any more.
: I mean it hits you where you live all of a sudden and it REALLY MEANS SOMETHING ELSE now.
: I can't explain it, but i know that is what all of it should be(all the bible), there is stuff in there you can't get the first time, stuff you can't get without prayer, stuff you have to meditate over, and stuff you need to be in a certain place to GET, and finally I think it's a bit different for each person.
: I think it is API code but most people look at it and see the numbers and symbols instead of what is really there.
: I think it is poetry, but not at first glance. Maybe not at second, third, or hundredth glance.
well i'm thinking a lot of it is poetry, period. i mean, the way it was originally written, which i don't have the training to read. the way steve translated that one thing, it felt atavistic to me, almost like i was reading the original beowulf or something. and of course some of it was written orginally to be poetry, its poetry by the simple definition of what poetry is. and some of it clearly isn't. an epistle in the new testament isn't going to fall under the category of poetry, but maybe readings from Isaiah will, or some of the psalms. what steve translated was clearly poetry, i think practically anyone could see that. felt like it to me anyway.
ok, i'll try my best to explain to you about the bible being for the masses. its simple really. the bible was originally written in hebrew, aramaic and greek. and i think that's all. so the guys and girls who have gone about translating it have always had a balancing act to do... to get as close to the original meaning as possible but still translate it in such a way as to have it make sense to their readers. otherwise, who is going to read it? ok, like DUH, right? but that's the basic premise underlying what i was saying. but to really read it, you know, the real thing that is underneath the shiny made-for-prime-time deal that you can pick up at practically any bookstore in the world, you have to get some training. you have to buy some books with the original stuff. you maybe take some classes somewhere. you work at it. and for a guy like me growing up in america and really knowing only one language, maybe that's a tall order. or maybe not. but anyway, i think that at some time in my life i'd like to start down this path.
so like it or not, that is just the way it is. it doesn't mean that god can't speak to us through it. it doesn't mean there isn't an incredible power in it that shines through even bad translation.
but there is something else going on with me about this. this is the part that will be hard to explain. but i'll give it a shot. sometimes when i am reading whatever translation i am reading, it feels like a big lie. it feels like it isn't real. now this is the part where you are probably going to take exception, but i'm just being frank. i don't mean that the thing underneath the translation is a lie. i don't mean that at all, but its like i can see that it isn't really, i don't know. something that i think is *there* is too clouded. its clouded by a lot of things. it's clouded by all the stuff i've ever learned. it's clouded by the shiny ribbons they've put on top of it. i really don't know how to explain it, but it is dead to me many times. where before it wasn't. it's like i want to pick it up and shake it real hard until all the original letters pop out and spill onto the desk so i can start rearranging them.
well, something like that. its a feeling i have about it, and i think that its going to lead me somewhere that i need to go. i don't mean to impinge on anyone's good time. i'm hoping if steve starts up some classes sometime, maybe i can get away and go. i have to start somewhere.