Posted by jonvon on November 16, 2001 at 00:00:35:
In Reply to: bill's scattered parabolic resp. to this whole very STIMULATING conversation. Just pretend I'm throwing some giant disjointed gannet out into the universe somewhere trying to hit every point at once. something like that........and forgive me for not being too eloquent...... posted by giveawayboy on November 15, 2001 at 16:26:34:
: first on all the stuff about Jonvon not knowing who he is right now and on John not agreeing with everything about Catholicism but still appreciating the form of it, without being bound to it, and also being a mystic and connecting w God via nature (Romans ch. 1)......
: I soooo love this guys. I am a walking mirror of Jonvon in certain respects. After 6 years of journeying to Catholicism and 3 years of active practice as a Catholic I too can say I really don't know who I am right now. But I would like to caution a few people who I already know are or will be assuming that I was looking to Catholicism for some sort of identity that they are wrong. I became a Catholic, not because I needed 'ritual' or 'complexity' or 'form' or 'personal identity'. I became a Catholic because at some point I came to a conviction that, amidst all her clunkiness, the Church was true.
i remember this. i remember rejoicing in your reasoning, i was overwhelmed with the insight you expressed at that time. it stirred old low burning fires in me.
: I had several very good reasons for this which I can still discuss, but the purpose of this post is not apologetic. I am here to say that I, like John, do not KNOW much of anything right now when it comes to religion.
i think mainly what i don't know about is how to practise my faith. i'm not really having so much of a crisis in what i believe (if anything many things have gotten deeper and more important and more meaningful recently), but in how to act. i find a lot of peace in just kind of existing, and in retreating from the world. sometimes when i go into social situations especially lately i'm at a loss as to how to conduct myself. i have a hard time just having a normal conversation with anyone. sometimes it isn't so bad, sometimes i wouldn't be, couldn't be anywhere but with my friends. sometimes i want to disappear with my little family into the woods and never be seen again. which is a weird thing for me to want. i've never been happier than when i lived right in the middle of midtown and virginia highlands and little five points and downtown in atlanta. i loved hanging in those neighborhoods, i love the feel of the city. i think my soul was made for that kind of place. i need both really, the solitude amidst the bustle. this bleeds over heavily into my spiritual life. i need to be around people who are moving, doing things, doing art or dissecting dna strands or something. i need to be around creative people. i think a big part of my problem with churches is largely social. that is why The Refuge was such a miracle, there were so many creative people around. something in my brain starts breaking down after too many dumb, pointless conversations. this must sound really haughty but this is just how it is for me.
: To me, this uncertainty does no harm to my participation in the sacraments as they are all predicated on faith anyway, and not certainty. They are all an appeal to a MYSTERIUM TREMENDUM AD FASCINANS, which we have been told is alot like the wind. We can see where it has been, but we can not truly SEE it, only it's effects. That the Catholics get tied up in definitions and legal muck is true. That all Catholics suffer from this is a minomer. That some people see the Pope as a demigod and do not think for themselves does not discount all the Catholics whose choices and beliefs are formed by will, thought and conscience. By the way, the Pope lives his life very humbly before the people. I have friends that know him personally. That the Church defines a few things, like the Trinity or Salvation through Christ for instance, does not indicate that they are trying to be demigods and THINK for everyone. They are basically doing their best to receive what God has revealed and transmit it. This is called being able to a give a reason for what you believe. The Church does this. She is supposed to. Anyway, I wanted to say that even though I still believe Catholic faith, I do not do it easily or without MUCH doubting. Infact the more I grow in truth the more I doubt and question the same things over and over. There is a sense of security knowing that if God exists he is in control, but it's not this brass kind of certainty.....it is more of an experiencial thing.
hm. i draw in a deep breath.
i want to quote the little sentence i have on my home page. "faith is a wild animal hunting you in the dark, not quite morpheus, not quite apollo." i want to say that the kingdom of god belongs to children. to approach god through faith is to approach in childlike wonder. it is to believe that as you step through a black black place in which nothing can be seen and nothing can be felt under your feet, that there is a welcoming light just inside the doorway you are stepping into and that you will not fall into nothingness. it is believing in a moment of terror that it really is true, and that the impossibly loud shouting coming from the intellectual part of the mind is really just another child, a bullying child that wants to get its way so that it can continue to exist in the myopic universe it has fashioned around itself.
it is these moments of terror that inform the rest of our spiritual identity. well, at least in my experience.
also, i have learned of late that very simple childlike praying is the best kind of all. for instance, actually saying prayers out loud that come straight from the heart, from the doubts, from the faith, from the needs and desires roiling around in the chest and stomach, these are very powerful prayers to pray. or naming people out loud and asking god in the simplest terms to bless them, to help them, to heal them.
these prayers literally change consciousness. all the energy in the room flips to a more positive pole almost immediately. childlike faith can burn away years of "stuff" in a matter of moments.
i know that you know all these things, but they are things i have been thinking about lately and thought you might like to hear them.
also i should say that the things happening in you are good things. the little birds from the west and the east whispering Universals in the inimitable polemical bill rogers fashion are undoing you despite your attempts at living a normal life. i have a strong belief however that as truth is unraveled clarity slowly sets in. one day you will hear the sound of ohm as perhaps you have not heard it before. at that time many things will have died away in you, used up from the striving upon one pole and another. it is very hard to see two things at once - just remember you don't always have to make a choice.
ouch, hope that wasn't too aphoristic.
your post is freaking awesome. i wish i had more to say about it but most of it leaves me silent. i am going to bed now. thanks for writing. :-)