Posted by PS on December 04, 2003 at 13:42:39:
In Reply to: Re: Parable # 427 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . only $19.95 posted by Bob - the Alien on December 04, 2003 at 08:22:46:
: : BUT - the hundreds of years of reactionary theological development would be extremely relevant to you if you ever studied them. I promise.
: You know, I really used to believe that. I did study and read quite a bit, and it only left me with questions.
Oh, how terrible. ;-) Yes, there will always be more questions. Seriously, a directed study by real historians without an agenda might lead to better questions, that lead to better questions yet, and the progress of asking good questions is what leads to wisdom--pat answers do not. When you stop questioning, you have stopped learning. But more to the point, if your study did not convince you of how relative the history of the development of your own religion is to you and your faith, you somehow missed all the important issues, or else they were sugar-coated for you.
Beware of anachronistic and culturally decontextualized interpretations of Jesus' teachings. And beware of any teacher who only presents one viewpoint on every issue. They are recreating you in their image, but not helping you think.
: Now, I have questions still, but when I turn to the leaders of my church for answers, they have answers.
That is their job--to provide easy and comprehensible answers, to shield their flock from the really difficult questions and the embarrassing history of the development of their theology, to make sure no other alternate view is presented as valid (then you would have to think!), and keep everyone believing exactly the same way for the unity of the body.
: But given those 4 things -- what do philosophers really have to offer?
Teach you different ways to think? So you can take issues of ultimate concern and engage them in different ways?.
: They could be fun to read, for sure, but when I have an uncontradictory belief set, church leaders to guide me, and answers to the questions I pose.... the philosophers seems just like idle reading.
They do often seem like so much mental masturbation. There are a few in whom I find value...
: I don't mean to criticize your area of interest at all...
Philosophy is NOT my area of interest. I thought I made that clear. I am a religious studies scholar and a theologian. God is my area of interest. My field does involve philosophy, of course--EVERY DISCIPLINE DOES!
You yourself learn philosophy every day you're in church. It is someone else's philosophy that you accept as truth with minimal questioning--but it is philosophy none the less.
As I said, God is my area of interest. And the church, with its revision of truth to suit its colonialist politics, and its reactionary theology to polarize opposing viewpoints, its crusades and inquisitions, wars against the heathen and wars against its brethren, has so perverted and obscured the teachings of Christ through the centuries, that understanding the REAL origins and the millenia of development of that easy theology of yours would disillusion you. You have not studied what you say you have if you honestly think the answers are clear.
Why are there so many versions of Christianity? Why is yours the truth? "He that knows one, knows none." (Goethe--regarding language; Müller--regarding religion.) If you have nothing you know half as well as your own version of truth to compare it to, you do not really know your own.
I might add: Religions are usually concerned with the essence of truth, but are often ignorant of their own histories--the history of the development of their essential views! They think somehow that their beliefs are timeless and unchanging, and have always existed as they are now, and they are unconcerned with the forces that have changed their essential views through the centuries.
: it just seems to me that fallible thinking built on hundreds of years of fallible thinking cannot possibly be a valid foundation for a spiritual path.
Exactly--and that is what YOUR path is largely built on; you do not realize how much your religion is founded on their thinking. Only by learning the history of your faith would you ever begin to realize it. That is my point. And when you do begin to realize that most of the things you thought were "God-breathed" are really the ideas of men, you start asking again about the nature of God, and you desire to learn to love Him apart from the theological politics which have so colored and shaped your faith. The doctrine your church believes--I'm sure have been taught that it is how the apostles and the early church really believed--but is it? How would you ever know? By reading the gospels out of context with assumed interpretations? How can you shake free of any conditioning to think objectively, if you have no other good input?
Now I am not saying your church is bad or that you are not learning truth. But it is a truth that has been interpreted, simplified, standardized, and applied for you--pre-digested, if you will. This is fine and there is a need for it, to be sure. You will grow and benefit from such teaching --to a point--or more correctly, to an end--to the end that you will be perfectly integrated into church society and values. But I will save the development of this for later... ("Thank God!" everyone shouts!)
I guess the main question comes down to this--if you were wrong about something, would you want to know? Your answer seems to be no, at least for right now. That is fair enough, and may be actually the best answer for now. But at least we should all realize this crucial question and our response to it for what it really is. :-)