Posted by jonvon on November 09, 2001 at 21:27:33:
In Reply to: Re: verses- help me find one or more posted by Cindi on November 09, 2001 at 13:18:16:
ok, to ME the important part to understand is the flip side, not so much defining exactly when someone falls into "sexual immorality" but getting your heart around the truth in this piece: "Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature."
I mean, to me the whole thing centers around learning what living your life in the Spirit is about, falling in love with God, "clothing yourself with Christ". i really don't think any of the other stuff, getting an imprimatur (to use an old catholic word) stamped on your relationship, or getting married legally, is what the intent of the scripture is pointing at. i think in the end it is about what is in your heart, and what is in the heart of the person you are in relationship with. i have found that as i have understood this, that other things having to do with morality tend to work themselves out.
think about it this way... there a plenty of scriptures about judgment, and many of them in the gospels where Jesus is teaching talk about trees and the fruit they bear. basically trees that produce good healthy fruit are "good trees" and trees that don't produce good fruit are "bad trees". so, the people are the trees and the fruit is the deeds they have done, and the intentions of their hearts in doing those deeds.
well, since this is an analogy, how does a fruit tree develop its fruit in the real world? first it has to BE a certain kind of fruit tree. so it STARTS with identity, and in the life of a christian that goes back to the "born again" experience where you literally on some level become a "new creature" (there is scripture about this too). this is essentially an encounter with the spirit of God where you just know that something has happened and you are a new person. after that it is about growing in the spirit, which just means learning about the bible and praying and stuff. i mean it doesn't have to be incredibly complicated, its just about falling in love with God. to extend the analogy a bit further (i'm sure this must be painfully obvious) the word of God and prayer and so forth are like good soil and rain and sun that help the fruit tree grow and develop so that one day it will bear fruit. in our lives this is essentially works born from love. and so this feeds right back into the whole relationship thing, and it feeds into a lot of other stuff as well.
so then as that scripture says "do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature", what happens is that as we are transformed from "glory to glory" as the bible talks about, we lose interest (hopefully) in gratifying the desires of the sinful nature. we "put on" another nature, a holy nature. in other words it comes FROM THE INSIDE OUT, not the outside in. that is the way it becomes real in our lives. so even if you were to correctly define exactly what sexual immorality is, it won't do you any good unless you are growing in Jesus, in God, from the inside out.
thats MY take anyway...
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: Okay thats VERY helpful. But if you will allow me to play the devils advocate for a moment. In all the verses you provided for me every mention of sexuality was worded "sexual immorality"...now to give more beef to the argument...where does it define "sexual imoratity" as opposed to "sexuality". reason? a couple is dedicated, devoted, livinig a good and moral life. but they have nver been 'married' in the eyes of the church [ie: no wedding ceremony performed by a cleric] or the state [no licence filed]...perhaps in their own eyes they've taken one another to 'to have and to hold, from this day forward....until death do us part' .... what then makes them "sexually immoral"?
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